Energetic: The Science of Stuck and Handling Mental Wellness | Britt Frank & Dr. Jennifer Bulcock | Season 9, Ep. 366

Dr. Robin

Welcome back to Small changes, big shifts, building rhythm and resilience. Hey, I want to say thanks a lot for all your support over the last four weeks. Said we’ve been celebrating 30 years in practice. And hopefully if you have a chance, you can go to our LinkedIn or our Facebook and watch some of the Facebook lives on being this of how you could be what you want to be.

And speaking of being and celebrating, we’re celebrating my friend Britt Frank’s new book. But I wanted to kind of tee it up that we’re going to transition to another series. And it’s going to be called Free Your Space. And how could you live more fully this spring?

And yes, it is spring, thank goodness. And how could you live more fully from a mind body spirit perspective? And how do you declutter the things that keep your heart chained up or your mind and your thoughts? Hijacked.

Possibly the food you’re putting in your body and stuff on your skin. So that’s our series that would be starting. And once again, thanks again for all your support over the last month. And we did raise all that money for the kids.

And so this is an important message for the kids as we talk about the science of stuck, as we talk about the science of stuck with Britt Frank in her new book. And as we go into mental health awareness. And I know Britt will give us some ideas about that.

So, a couple of fun facts about my guest today, Britt Frank. One is she’s a friend, but she’s also an educator, trauma specialist, author. She does Ariel Hoops for fun. Her name is not short for Brittany. It’s really Britt. One of her favorite books of all time is The Artist Way by Julia Cameron. Her shit Sue Oscar. He’s the cutest dog on the planet. Well, he’s close to my Skyler, but he’s pretty cute, too. He definitely is sassy. Britt was an awardwinning adjunct professor at Ku a rock Chalk Jayhawk. She is the alumnus of both Duke and Ku. So, she had been torn this last week. Britt wrote The Science is Stuck because it was the book that didn’t exist when she was starting her healing journey. Britt, welcome to the show. Hi. Thanks for having me.

Let’s dive into the journey with you about writing your book, The Science is Stuck.

Britt

So when I started so I’m a trauma therapist and a clinician and I have a shiny little resume, but I have a really unshiny history. And so I’ve really experienced this mental health wellness journey from both the side of the provider and the person in desperate need of information. And so what I found when I started my healing journey is that there wasn’t any one resource that synthesized and distilled and simplified the overwhelming mountain of research.

We all have a stack of self help books sitting on our nightstand, and very few of us, especially these days, have the time or inclination to wade through them all. And so the idea for the book came about where I said, well, what if there was one book that had the highlights of all the really good books on trauma, on motivation, on procrastination, on boundaries, on relationships, and we can have everything in one place?

I love the deep dive. As a therapist, I’m delighted to deep dive, but I’ve found in my work most people just need enough information to get going. And with just a few little pieces of information, it’s amazing how many powerful shifts can happen.

Dr. Robin

Well, thanks for throwing in the word shift, because it definitely is a shift. And I totally agree with you that it just takes a nugget and then their body and their mind, their spirit can take that and take it to the next level for them. Why do you think that people are stuck?

Britt

So, I think there’s a lot of reasons that people get stuck. So assuming that they’re not oppressed or lacking resources, access to basic needs, things like that, one of the main reasons that we all get stuck is we don’t have the right information. If you didn’t know how to drive a car and the car didn’t have gas, you would sit in that car and go, what’s wrong with this car? What’s wrong with me? Am I a bad driver? Is this car broken?

If you don’t know that a car requires, well, not all cars, but gas. Field cars require gas, then you’re going to stay stuck. So the first thing is a lack of information. And then the second thing is we are experts at shaming ourselves and beating ourselves up, and nothing will render us inert faster than shame.

Not all behaviors are excusable, but everything makes sense in context. And if shaming ourselves worked, it would have worked by now. So if we can get accurate information and dump the shame, we can all get moving.

Dr. Robin

So true. What are a few of the mental health myths that keep us stuck?

Britt

And I know you love these too, being who you are and doing what you do. Mental health has very little to do with your mind and very much to do with your body. So I like to say the biggest myth of mental health is that it’s mental. Mental health is physiological.

We have brains and we have central nervous systems, and we experience the world in bodies. And if you don’t know how the body works, you’re going to have really poor mental health. And you’re not going to know why. A central nervous system that’s stuck in a variety of responses is going to present with symptoms of anxiety or depression. Or whatever.

And often the things that we label as mental illness is actually the body doing exactly what the body was designed to do. It doesn’t mean it’s good. It doesn’t mean we shouldn’t change it. It doesn’t mean we shouldn’t take meds, but it does mean that mental health is not a mindset issue. It’s a body issue. And knowing that is really important.

Dr. Robin

Well, as a chiropractor, we specialize in the nervous system. So I’m glad you brought that up. We like to say motion is lotion. And I always say we want to realign your spine so you can feel your divine. When I say that to you from your neuro perspective on Earth that you study, you want to realign your spine so you can feel your divine. How does that sit with you as a therapist?

Britt

Well, I love you and I love all of your sayings, but that one I love because it’s such a beautiful hybrid of the spiritual and the science, because align your spine to feel your divine makes sense. If your spine is aligned, you’re not going to have excess cortisol. You’re not going to be stuck in Amygdala Hijack. You’re not going to have an HPA access that is going bonkers. And so if you’re not having all of these sub optimal nervous system reactions, you’re going to feel centered, you’re going to feel grounded, you’re going to feel in your power, you’re going to feel the ability to set and make choices.

And I don’t know what feels more divine than the ability to know who we are, what we’re about, and feeling the power to carry that out. So, yes.

Dr. Robin

Well, I love that you said your Amygdala Hijacked. And that, Amygdala, is what’s in your brain that helps control your anxiety. Speaking of anxiety, and we’re in this mental health crisis, I would say in our kids, I’m really all about the kids because I think we could teach them how to listen to their mind, body spirit. Hopefully, it saves them some of the drama and trauma that you and I went through. Any words of wisdom to parents right now during these times?

Britt

Oh, my gosh. And really, I feel for parents having to homeschool, having to navigate unprecedented global crisis while navigating parenting. So if you’re a parent, be nice to yourself. Nobody knows how to do this. There’s no handbook. This has not been done before. So the first thing as a parent is you deserve support. You deserve to take care of your own self. And the best thing you can do for a kid as an adult is to take care of yourself. And then with kids to know that our kids brains are largely on fire right now.

So I would be very hesitant to label them with anything until we’ve achieved some level of homeostasis or some level of normalcy again, because what I’m seeing is that children are being labeled with very, very severe and serious mental illnesses and mental disorders.

But again, if as adults we’re feeling scattered, stuck and on fire, our children, of course, are not going to be able to focus. They’re not going to be able to concentrate. They’re not going to be able to get their assignments done.

All the College kids I work with are experiencing severe depression. Imagine being 20 in College and stuck inside all day, every day. So as much as we need to treat the symptoms, I would encourage any parent to be very wary of permanent labels for what is a long but hopefully temporary situation.

Dr. Robin

I love that. Don’t label, just kind of hold space. How can somebody hold space for their kid to go through this or for themselves? Besides Grace? What are some other tools that you have to hold space for people?

Britt

So I’m really big on not excusing behavior. Some of my teens will tell their parents, well, Britt said I have Amygdala hijack. And that’s why I can’t do my homework. So I’m just going to go watch TikTok videos. No, but it’s important to have a lot of Grace for kids. And if they need accommodations, if they need extra time.

A really good question as a parent, when you’re trying to triage all of the things is to ask, how important is it when it comes to the kids? How important is this project? How important is that paper? And largely what the kids are going to remember when this is all over is not the math that they learned in 6th grade. It’s going to be did my family help to make me feel as safe as possible and as loved as possible?

And our brains will largely take care of the learning and the growing as we start to feel safer, assuming we get to hopefully we get to. But it’s important to know that kids need to feel safe in order to be productive.

So, the chief objective should not be productivity. It should be establishing some to the degree that we’re able semblance of safety and security and knowing that it’s not their fault if they’re struggling. It’s not their responsibility to manage what’s happening in the world and letting them know that they matter.

Dr. Robin

It makes me think of the word rhythm and resilience. How can you build some rhythm so you can have some resilience? And I want to give a shout out to one of our sponsors, the YMCA. I very seldom say yes to be on boards unless I really believe in the mission and it’s alignment with what I’m trying to do on the planet.

And the Y has three objectives healthy living, youth education, social responsibility. So I invite you if you or your kids are struggling, maybe you need a gym membership or join a community that can help you get moving. As I say, motion. This motion is so good for the nervous system to help get you out of that fight or flight. So Britt, as we start to kind of shift our interview.

Okay, Brittany, you talked about in the introduction about how the book will kind of have a short dive or just kind of an overview of the different ways people can be stuck. Tell me a little bit about motivation and procrastination.

Britt

So motivation and procrastination are very loaded words. And I hear in my practice all day people saying, I don’t know what’s wrong with me. I can’t get motivated. I’m just such a procrastinator. I’m lazy. And people are largely assuming that that is a personal problem or a character defect or some sort of personal failing.

And again, just like we said that mental health is a physiological process, motivation, the ability to be able to go out and do the things we know that we want to do and that we should do and that we’re supposed to do. Motivation requires a brain to not be on fire.

So again, if your amygdala, if your brain’s panic button is going off and that looks like fight-flight, freeze, it looks like a variety of things, you’re not going to be motivated. I tell people, imagine trying to answer your email while a Tiger is sitting in the corner of your living room. If a Tiger is sitting in the corner of your living room, I don’t care how smart you are, you’re not going to be able to read what’s on the screen and you’re not going to focus on how to properly format that reply.

Because if a lion or a Tiger is in the room, your brain is in threat mode. It’s in survival mode. Now, seeing a Tiger in the living room is pretty obvious. But we are all experiencing Tigers all day, every day and assuming that it’s us.

So, I tell people, just imagine that there is a Tiger in the room if you’re feeling like you’re unmotivated or like you’re stuck in procrastination. And the right question. This is so important. The right question is not why am I unmotivated? The right question is what resources can help me feel supported and safe in this moment?

So, if we can take the why out of the equation, why am I like this? What’s wrong with me? Change the why to a what and a who, who is available in my network that I can look to for encouragement? What tools are in my toolbox that I’m willing to use right now and just assume that the reason that you’re not moving is not because it’s you.

That doesn’t mean we should be okay staying inert, but it does mean take the shame off of it. There are science-based reasons why you’re feeling unmotivated. And it’s not a personal failing. It’s a physiological issue.

Dr. Robin

So, a physiological problem needs a physiological solution. Great question. Great answer on how to shift that how to look around for what tools you have. Speaking of tools in the tool bag, what’s some of your favorite tools for yourself?

Britt

So, I’m really big on self-talk. So I always start with something is happening. I don’t know what, I don’t know why, but I am not crazy. So, if I’m stuck, I don’t need to understand why it’s happening to know that the affirmation, the mantra, I am not lazy. I am not crazy. There’s no such thing as a crazy person. Everything makes sense.

Dr. Robin

Hang on. I am not lazy and I’m not crazy. That’s a great one.

Britt

It’s really true. You’re not. So, let’s start with the affirming self-talk. Take the shame off of it. And what you said, motion is lotion stuck turns into unstuck the second you take a step in any direction. So even if it’s you get up and do 20 jumping Jacks, even if it’s you lay on the floor and roll around and feel what it feels like to roll around on the floor the second that you say yes to anything, no matter how small, you have now become unstuck.

So, step one, take the shame out. Step two, move, do something, do anything. This isn’t about exercise and this isn’t about fitness goals. It’s about let’s get your brain out of freeze.

So, the fastest path out of freeze is physical movement. So, push on a wall, push on a door, squeeze and ring a towel out. The towel intervention is one of my favorites. Just take a towel and ring it as hard as you possibly can, and you’re going to feel all your muscles burning and your proprioceptive system is going to respond. And that will largely help your brain register.

Okay, we’re okay. In this moment, we’re okay. The world might not be okay, but right now I’m okay. And I can make a choice and I can take a step and I can’t do all of the things, but I can do something. So give yourself a lot of Grace. Maybe you can’t do all the things and maybe you can’t do the big things. But there’s always a yes. Find the yes. Find the yes. Another good quote there, as we say, tweetable moment there.

Dr. Robin

So our theme this quarter is the energetic Quadrant. I practice the quadrants of well-being, mechanical, chemical, energetical, and psychospiritual. And this month we’re talking about energy because it’s a time to kind of feel renewed and kind of rebuild yourself back up. Yet build yourself back up in your tools. How can frame your mind of thinking unhealthy thought patterns help give us more energy or help give someone more energy?

Britt

Well, it takes a tremendous amount of energy to think, and it takes a really large pool of energy to shame ourselves. And so when we’re talking about stinkin’ thinking, which I love because I’ve worked the twelve steps, the problem with stinking thinking is not that it’s negative, it’s that it’s not honest.

So if you’re stuck in a negative thought spiral, you’re missing some truth. And the same is true. On the opposite end, there’s a toxic positivity thing that happens where people are like, I’m good, I’m great, everything is fine. I should feel grateful, and everything is good.

If you’re stuck in a positive spiral or a negative spiral, you’re missing what’s true. And if you can stay in what’s true, which is, hey, there are some things that are really hard, and I have a lot of resources, and I have a lot to be grateful for. And there are also some things that are really scary.

Nothing will get you out of a negative thought loop faster than asking this question, how true is this?

Dr. Robin

How true is this? I think about Byron Katie’s work, her book Loving What Is. And I always tell people, I’m pretty clear that I’ve never read the whole book from cover to cover. But that first question, Is this really true? Has saved me so much anguish through the years. Is this really true? And can you imagine people really ask that when they started the story in their head, taking a second to just ask that again, these small shifts can create powerful transformations. How true is it?

Britt

And it might be a little bit true, but largely, if you’re stuck in a huge shame spiral of everything is terrible and I can’t do anything. And if you ask how true is it? You’ll find maybe 10% of that is true. But that other 90% is the medicine that will get you unstuck.

Dr. Robin

I love that. The medicine. Speaking of medicine, when is your medicine for the world?

Britt

I love that question. My medicine for the world, explaining really complicated concepts. It was so frustrating to me, going through trauma training and grad school and being in academia, that we don’t need to use a lot of words and we don’t need to use big words to explain very simple concepts.

So I really love metaphor and making it accessible so our brains can get wrapped around these things. So my medicine for the world is metaphor.

Dr. Robin

Well, I keep having this thought go through my head. Like I tell clients, do you want to be a grape or do you want to be a raisin? And that’s one way to get unstuck is drink water and hydrate. Right. And what’s going to be more effective?

Britt

The grape raisin thing. I love that so much. Like, if you explain the mechanisms of dehydration and here’s what happens in your cells. It’s like snooze glaze over dissociate grape raisin. Boom. I get that. I can get on board with that. That’s a powerful visual. We talk about how powerful stories are. We also relate to the world in metaphor and in symbols and in ideas. So let’s use them. They’re powerful. I would much rather you say to me great versus reason than explaining the mechanisms of dehydration snooze.

Dr. Robin

Well, no problem. I have no problem doing that. So, Britt, as we wrap up our show, is there any other book besides the science of stuck that you’re reading right now or quote or song that’s inspiring you to continue your shift right now?

Britt

I am loving Martha Beck’s new book. And it’s about integrity. And it’s about being in integrity with ourselves, with the things that we want, making sure that our actions align with our values. And if it’s not happening, how to sort of do spiritual chiropractic to get ourselves back in alignment with who we want to be and what we want to do. I love Martha Beck’s work.

Dr. Robin

Well, I’m glad you said that. I happened to interview Edie Varley, one of my favorites. I have so many favorites, which is great. She’s one of my tool bags. How about that? She’s one of my friends that’s in my tool bag when I want to really get rid of stinkin’ thinking. But I interviewed her on day 23 of my 30 day series of Being, and we were talking about trustworthy.

And trust is my word for the year. And I think one way I’m glad you brought up integrity, because one way to shift yourself is to be integrity and integrity with yourself and trust yourself so that you are honoring your words.

And so when you say, I’m going to drink 65oz of water today, you’re telling yourself kind of a pledge to yourself and that you honor yourself or I’m going to get 5000 steps or 10,000 steps, whatever it is for you. Great. I love that analogy. So I love that book. I have not read much of Martha Beck stuff, so maybe I’ll get to that. So thanks for sharing that.

Speaking of books that just came out, you’re going to be having a book party with our friends at Rainy Day Books. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Britt

Yes. And it’s open invite. If you’re in the city and you want to come join us, please do. So our book launch party is going to be on April 21, and I’ll give you the invitation so you can share the details. And it’ll be at 2016 main event space and Gallery in the Crossroads. And Rainy Day Books will be there and it will be a lot of fun. I’m really excited to share this with our community in our city.

Dr. Robin

Well, so if you’re in the Kansas City area, we invite you to join us on April 21. We’ll put the address in the show notes, but I want to give a shout out again to our friends at Rainy Day Books and all the people that help sponsor this work, whether it’s this podcast, our practice, our 30-day campaign, our foundation, our consortiums we’re doing and then plus some of the guests that we have on our show that say yes to being on the show to help give you one idea, you never know what one idea will help shift you forever.

Britt, any closing thoughts as we wrap up our show today?

Britt

If you take nothing away from this talk, just remember there’s always an explanation even if you don’t know what it is. You are not lazy, you are not crazy.

Dr. Robin

You are not lazy and you are not crazy. Hey, invite you to stay tuned as we continue our conversation with our friends over at advent health on mental health. Have a great week and hey, I’ll chat with you really soon.

Well, welcome back to Small Changes, Big Shift. Just got a chance to hear from Britt Frank with the science of stuck. And today joining me to continue this conversation is Jennifer Bulcock. She’s a medical doctor with Advent Health in the Spring Hill location. She’s a board certified family physician. Dr. Bullock provides care for patients of all ages with a wide range of health needs after earning a Bachelor’s of science and biology in health service administration from Washburn University as well medical degree at the University of Kansas School of Medicine. Dr. Bulcock, great week to be a Jayhawk.

After working as a family physician in Garnet, Kansas, Dr. Bulcock joined Advent Health Medical Group in 2022. When she’s not in the office, she enjoys quality time with her husband and two young daughters and spending time outdoors, especially when she’s on the golf course or in her garden. Dr. Bulcock, welcome to Small Changes, Big Shifts.

Dr. Bulcock

Thank you, Dr. Robin, thank you for having me today.

Dr. Robin

Well, as we jump in, what got you excited about becoming a medical doctor in the first place?

Dr. Bulcock

So I think it’s always been the drive to help people, and I think most people who endure medical school and residence here are going to tell you the same thing. It usually starts out when we’re young.

We find that helping people really gives us a drive. So that’s usually where it starts. And then, of course, you have to like the biology that comes along with it, which I really had a passion for as well.

Dr. Robin

That’s awesome. Well, it sounds like our community is lucky to have you. What is mental wellness and why is it so important to our physical wellness?

Dr. Bulcock

Sure. So I like to kind of divide these two types of wellness into objective and subjective. So as an allopathic doctor, most of what I do is on the physical wellness side a lot of the time. So that’s objective finding.

So, for example, somebody comes in for their physical wellness exam or they bring a piece of paper from their employer or their physical wellness. We look at things like BMI, it’s a number you’re either above, below, just right.

We also look at cholesterol for each person. There’s a certain cut off that we consider. Okay. And then we also look at things like your blood pressure and things like that that have specific values that go with it to tell us, are you physically well or are there things that need work?

When it comes to mental wellness, it’s much more a subject, a subjective matter, and it looks different for everybody.

To keep it broad, we’re what I like to kind of focus in on mental wellness, and what it is is each person’s sense of worth, each person’s sense of purpose and each person’s sense of peace. And that looks very different for everybody.

Dr. Robin

Well, great words. Purpose and peace doesn’t get much better than that, especially in a time where there’s a lot of turmoil. Peace is a great thing to have and not the P-I-E-C-E. But the peace, right? That’s right. Yeah, that’s right. What are a few things that can make us feel overwhelmed?

Dr. Bulcock

So what I see a lot in my practice, and again, I am an allopathic doctor, but with everything that’s been going on in my few short years of practice, I do a lot of mental wellbeing and mental health as well. So what I see a lot of the time is when folks come in, they just feel a loss of control of their lives that’s either with themselves, that’s with their job, that’s with their home life, and with the pandemic, that kind of exploded everything, because not only do they have themselves, their household, their job to worry about, there’s also these external stressors as well, which are making those other things more difficult.

Dr. Robin

Well, how does feeling overwhelmed affect people differently? And thinking about not just your patients, but I’m thinking about the medical team. There’s been a lot of talk about medical teams being burned out with COVID 19 and to be transplanters burn out before COVID 19. So talk a little bit about how this feeling overwhelmed affect people differently.

Dr. Bulcock

So like you said, everybody feels overwhelmed. The medical community has especially experienced that in the last couple of years when the demand is very high and you only have so much to give and the demand keeps growing and growing and growing, and you really have no more to give.

It’s very easy to feel overwhelmed. That’s the kind of obvious thing. But really, folks can feel overwhelmed for various reasons. It doesn’t have to be something as big as a pandemic to drive people to feel overwhelmed. It can just be simply like, I don’t control my kids.

That’s pretty overwhelming to some people. So it does affect people differently. For some people, they can take that feeling of overwhelmed and they have the tools to sit down and say, okay, this is what I’m going to do with this. This is how I’m going to kind of help this. And I typically don’t see those people in my clinic. Sometimes I’ll catch them if I ask about how home or work is going, and if they say, oh, it’s going fine, it’s really stressful that I handle it. Okay.

But one thing I do with those folks is I do screen for unhealthy ways of coping, which sometimes you’ll find like, oh, yeah, this is really stressful. So I went back to smoking or oh, yeah, I’ve been drinking a little bit more to kind of help me through this time. So I do screen for that on those folks who do seem to have it all under control.

But there’s also those folks who come to me and admit, like, hey, this is hard. I’m not going to be able to get through this on my own. I need some help. And with those people, I either see that they’re kind of more on the anxious side. They have trouble putting their thoughts into order. They have trouble getting anything done just because there’s so much.

And then I see those folks that are more on what I would say, like the depressed side, they’re just beat down, they’re worn down, and they’re coping. How they’re coping is by doing nothing. And so those are the folks that struggle with motivation, struggle to get out of bed in the morning and struggle to make it through the day to day life.

Dr. Robin

Well. So people can kind of pay attention if they’re finding themselves not wanting to get out of bed, numbing out with watching Netflix too much, starting to eat too much sugar, eating too much food, numbing out with food or alcohol. That’s some great red flags for people to pay attention to. How can people manage their thoughts of feeling overwhelmed?

Dr. Bulcock

So I think one of the biggest things is to do what Marie Condo is known for best is to declutter. So again, I go back to subjective and objectively, like objectively your space, declutter. It take some time each day.

So what Clutter does, it brings us in a lot of external stimuli. And so if our area is not clean, if we have stacks of paper sitting on our desk, like what that reminds us of is, oh, these things need done. I’ve got to make time for these things that’s just even more that you’re worried about doing.

So decluttering your life in that respect, and then also decluttering your mind, which is a little bit harder to do. One way that you can try to do that is by bringing into focus things that are important to you, keeping your purpose at the forefront and kind of triaging those things into, yes, this is most important.

This is what I’m going to focus on today, and making sure that focus is always going back to your work and your purpose and making sure that the things that you’re doing in regard to those things that you’re thinking about is also bringing you peace and that it’s not stressing you out even more.

Dr. Robin

Without a doubt, such good advice we’re talking this month about we’ve shifted our focus from celebrating our 30 years to really going into what we call free your space, our energetical Quadrant. And you did hit it right on.

We did not have this conversation before, but it’s really about decluttering your mind, body, spirit, whether it’s the food you’re putting in your body, the stuff around you, or the thoughts you’re having. So perfect timing. Hey, as we wrap up, do you have a favorite song, quote or book that was inspiring you right now?

Dr. Bulcock

So one that I thought about when I read this question. So I’m a 90s baby, so Incubus is coming to town in August. I will not be going because as you said, I have two young kids at home, but they have a song called Drive and I think it’s very fitting. It’s just about hey, you’re in the driver’s seat of your life you’re the only one in the driver’s seat are you going to drive that car or are you going to let fear step in and take the wheel? You’re going to end up at two different places and it’s really your choice as to where you’re going to go.

Dr. Robin

Well, I love that ties into the lesson we just had about kind of the ultimate decision maker in your own life. You’re in the driver’s seat hey, here’s the quote I picked for you Dr. Bulcock, thank you so much for joining me and I sure appreciate the opportunity to support Advent health and appreciate their support as we spread the message of small changes big shifts but here’s the quote I picked for you. Courage doesn’t always roar sometimes courage is a quiet voice at the end of the day saying I will try again tomorrow yes so important to give yourself Grace Amen to that you’ve been listening to small changes big shifts I’ll look forward to chatting with you real soon. If you need to reach out to me don’t hesitate at michelle@smallchangesbigshift.com blessings to all of you.